2008 Ballot Propositions Transcript

PROPOSITION 202, STOP ILLEGAL HIRING:

Secretary Brewer Explanation of a Yes and No Vote

SECRETARY JAN BREWER: A yes vote shall have the effect of modifying the law covering employers who knowingly or intentionally employ unauthorized aliens. Suspending or revoking licensees of businesses that employ unauthorized aliens. Adding penalties on employers who fail to properly report cash wages. Increasing penalties for identity theft related to employment, and establishing the presumptions favoring an employer that verifies employees' eligibility under federal law.

A no vote shall have the effect of retaining Arizona's current employment laws that suspend or revoke business licenses for employers who knowingly or intentionally employ an unauthorized alien.Argument For Proposition 202

Argument For Proposition 202

MR. ANDREW PACHECO: Good evening. My name is Andrew Pacheco, and I'm the chairman of Prop 202 titled "Stop Illegal Hiring."

In my 10 years as a prosecutor at both the state and federal level, I've seen the problems that illegal immigration causes our state. And I've learned that we need a law that gives law enforcement the tools they need to attack this problem head on. Prop 202 is tough, enforceable, and fair.

Unlike the current law, Proposition 202 will apply to all businesses in the State of Arizona. I don't know why all businesses are not included in the current law, but we don't need any more laws that cannot be enforced. Under current law, certain businesses can lose certain licenses if they break the law. Under Proposition 202, Stop Illegal Hiring, all businesses are covered and all of their licenses are covered.

Proposition 202 is not only tough, it's also fair. It goes after the real bad actors. If it isn't the owner or operator that makes the bad hiring decision, but instead a manager, that manager can be prosecuted for identity theft. That's a Class 4 felony, and they can go to prison. If it is an owner or an officer that makes the bad hiring decision, not only can they be prosecuted for identity theft, but the business can also lose its license.

What we don't want are innocent employees losing their jobs because of a low-level manager's action. The manager should be punished, not the legal -- not the legal workers like you or like me.

We all know that identify theft -- we all know that identity theft and illegal immigration go hand in hand. Proposition 202 makes our state's identity theft laws stronger, and punishes those who traffic in stolen IDs, as well as those who accept fake IDs.

A yes vote on Proposition 202, Stop Illegal Hiring, will focus on the real bad actors and cut them out like a cancer. Proposition 202 levels the field by applying to all businesses. We need to stop illegal immigration. We need to stop illegal hiring. Vote yes on Proposition 202.

MODERATOR CAREY PFEFFER: Two minutes.

MR. ANDREW PACHECO: Thank you very much.

Argument Against Proposition 202

MODERATOR CAREY PFEFFER: Now, in opposition of Proposition 202, we had a scheduled speaker. That speaker was not able to make it here, and so I'll be reading from the publicity pamphlet a statement that was prepared by Russell Pearce, who was scheduled to be here but wasn't able to attend; and, therefore, that will take the place of the opponents of Proposition 202. And I guess I'll have to impose my own time limitation. So, I'll make sure I stay within the two minutes.

And we begin: "Please vote no. The Stop Illegal Hiring Act is employer amnesty. "This initiative is fraud on Arizona voters. Arizona has the most effective, non-discriminatory employer sanctions law in the nation, and it has been upheld in four court challenges, which were brought by the same folks who bring you this initiative. This group puts profits over patriotism, and will do everything they can to keep cheap illegal labor, while hurting American workers."

"Proponents of this initiative have exploited a loophole in state law and refuse to name who is funding the campaign. We do know that some of the people pushing the initiative have been vocal opponents of illegal immigration enforcement, and are funding the court challenge against Arizona's right to enforce immigration laws."

"The Stop Illegal Hiring Act guts our employer sanctions law. One, it abolishes required use of E-Verify. Federal Judge John Walker blasted the current federal I-9 process. The documents workers present to companies are fraudulent. E-Verify is to help employers hire legal employees and is 99.7 percent accurate."

"Two, it requires Arizona to wait until the federal government has taken action against an employer before the state takes action."

"Number three, it exempts thousands of Arizona employers from the employer sanctions law by taking Articles of Incorporation and LLC registration out of the definition of license."

"Number four, it requires all complaints regarding employer violations of the law to be written and signed. This would stop employees from reporting violations. Anonymous tips are an important tool in taking criminals, including serial killers, off the streets."

"Five, It imposes an impossible standard of proof. High-level managers who are not officers or owners could hire illegal aliens with impunity, and would not face any enforcement."

"The Stop Illegal Hiring Act intentionally guts Arizona's employer sanctions law and allows illegal employers business as usual." "Russell Pearce."

Questions and Answers for Proposition 202

Our question for Proposition 202 comes from Mark: Isn't it already against the law to hire illegal citizens here in this country? Isn't it already illegal -- isn't it already against the law to hire illegals?

MR. MIKE BRAUN: Carey, under existing federal law it is illegal to hire people who are not in this country legally. The thrust of the existing state law and the proposed change in this measure deals with targeting the employer's business licenses. But you're correct when you -- when you mention that it is against federal law to hire a person who is here illegally.

Again, the thrust of the existing law and this measure targets the business license, which is permissible under federal law. Start with a question about Proposition 202 from Tim. This is the Stop Illegal Hiring Proposition.

The question from Tim is this: If passed, Proposition 202 would remove the E-Verify mandate from our current law. Why would Arizona want her voters -- excuse me, why would Arizona voters want to remove this mandate that has proven to actually help Arizona in stopping illegal hiring? I guess the heart of the question is, indeed does it remove E-Verify?

MR. MIKE BRAUN: Carey, under existing state law, employers are required to use the E-Verify system to check the status of prospective employees. Under the proposition, the requirement that E-Verify be used is eliminated. That doesn't mean that an employer may not use E-Verify. But the employer would not be required to use E-Verify. As to the wisdom of requiring or allowing the use of E-Verify, that's -- that's really beyond the scope of technical question. I would have to leave that to the voters to decide.

MODERATOR CAREY PFEFFER: A couple final questions. Timothy asking about Proposition 202, the Stop Illegal Hiring Measure: What is the effect in this measure of doing away with the filing of an anonymous complaint and now requiring a written complaint?

MR. MIKE BRAUN: Carey, I don't know that I'm in a position to actually state what -- the legal implication of that. It is correct that under the existing law, the complaint has to be on a -- a special form, but the complaint could be anonymous. And under the proposed ballot measure, that would be changed. I guess I would leave it to the voters to speculate if that would result in fewer or greater complaints.